Curse

instanceskiller · Dec 30, 2009, 02:18 PM // 14:18

This question as to whether subscription based or not is better is one that I don't think has a right or wrong answer to. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but i think i'm of the same opinion gun...
Oh and here's an opinion i think is worth a read since it was from one of the co-founders of anet-
Jeff strain-

http://www.killtenrats.com/2009/11/2...d-undead-labs/

If you continue reading there are comments below. Here's a quote i agree with as well-
"F2P history has shown that he is right though, how many of those games are fun up to a point, and then either stop or slow down unless you start shelling out cash? Even the good ones like Atlantica are like that, and it’s sad to think just how much better a game like that would be if only it was $15 a month rather than designed around $2 XP pots."

Edit: just adding more opinions to this thread

Gun Pierson · Dec 30, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I still dont get your argument with bringing NCSoft into this sorry:

No game has ever done this. You are just hypothesizing and presenting your own opinions and misinterpretations as facts which is never right to do.

Anet did it with GW1 and Surrow's Furnace, for free at the time and unfortunately they said they couldn't do that anymore. First signs that recources were limited.

And why NCSOft, because they fund development.

We have a different opinion on this and that's no problem, that's what happens on forums.

Pursh · Dec 30, 2009, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Guild Wars wont have many players if it has a subscription fee, the major selling point for the game is free online play.

drkn · Dec 30, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

they could have just opened a 'donation jar' so that all those 'ten bucks monthly is a slice of bread' trolls could aid ANet with their money and after reaching a certain peak, they'd work on a new content picked in a big poll made by and for donators.
it would meddle a lot here and there, is imho unnecessary and might shatter the gw community, but it's the only way that would work regarding money/content issue.

regarding the new content... *points at zaishen quests, points at nicholas, points at dhuum*

yet i still don't know what new content you'd want - when you buy majesty 2 or any other game, with no monthly fee or other payments but the one in the shop, you don't get any new stuff either. and if you do, you have to pay more. it's normal and no one forces you to play 40 months in one game just because it's mmo. heck, i'm glad that we have some events here, including the weekends and wintersday or halloween.

as for the OP itself - no, no monthly fee in GW or GW 2 ever, ANet is doing good. i just wish they made updates more often but less packed instead of 30 changes once a year that they balance out later anyways.

Obrien Xp · Dec 30, 2009, 03:01 PM // 15:01

The gw business model is working as is. I don't know about you but all of my friends are going balistic trying to get gw, my one friend had his whole family get all the games and eotn. I have 3 other friends that want accounts too. The main catcher is the gameplay and graphics, throw in the no subscription fee and they're hooked.

If you want to support anet through a monthly fee then just buy a char slot every month or xunlai tabs and the like, there's enough aesthetic or decent things to get in the in-game store to effectively keep you paying 10 bucks a month for a while. (at least until gw2 comes out).

Aldric · Dec 30, 2009, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

If GW had a subscription system since release, it would have been a success, and more money backing it for better/more regular updates.

As someone who always had a dislike for pay per play games i now find myself totally agreeing with Fenix.

I took a break from GW for 3 months recently and played WoW instead at a cost of ~£10 a month.

I was playing a couple of hours per day so probably 75-80 hours a month at least for £10 and I came to the conclusion that in real terms paying for your server time is not even close to expensive as most other hobbies or pastimes that i could partake in - I could watch 3 ppv movies , ~15 minutes of live football , drink 3 pints or go to the movies for the same amount.

If GW2 was released as pay per play then I would try it to make sure i liked it and then hand over my cash with no qualms , aslong as regular content was added.

FyrFytr998 · Dec 30, 2009, 03:37 PM // 15:37

I see a lot of players that say they would support the micro transaction model if it were to provide new content other than utility and aesthetics. Content like Sorrows Furnace and the Bonus Mission Pack seem to be more what people want.

My question is, what do you players feel is a realistic schedule on the release of such content? How fast or slow would obviously affect the quality of such releases. Sorrows Furnace for example. What do players feel that content was worth?

Obviously there can be a middle of the road between players and developers. Granted if both sides can admit that the initial vision of GW was a little off, and adjustments need to be made.

I see the micro model working if they did Furnace type releases, as well as bell and whistle type content. But I get the feeling that even then people would still bitch and moan. Which why I asked how fast would said content need to be put out to keep the QQer's content?

And then. How long do you run the game before you move on to the next generation of the game? Other than screwing the pooch on the release of GW2. I had thought GW was right on schedule to that point.

So what say the masses? How much and how often would you be willing to pay for "optional" content?

Turk The Legendary · Dec 30, 2009, 04:11 PM // 16:11

theres already a topic on this lol...

Yawgmoth · Dec 30, 2009, 04:27 PM // 16:27

The best business model imaginable is the one GW1 was originally meant to have - releasing only MASSIVE content packages worthy of being called complete games, full boxed products that got reviews in media so had to maintain highest quality to be worth the $ spent. This system offered by FAR the biggest bang for your buck possible in an MMO AND at the same time the game was perfectly *FAIR* for it's players in that it didn't provide any ingame advantages to players who would spend more $$$ on it than just purchasing all the content expansions.

Of course keeping that dream business model requires a whole big development team to keep working on new expansions/campagins but players then get the best value possible.

Now problems start when the devs can't keep up with releasing enough quality content - in case of GW it meant selling smaller and smaller content packages which offer LESS value per $ spent, and eventually going into the hell of microtransactions. The hell where you pay real amounts for absurdly small gains.

I'd much rather have them release one large final expansion to GW1 than multiple smaller ones for the simple reason that getting all the smaller ones would SURELY cost way more than 1 big one.

Now it would be completely different if GW1 was a subscription based game - so much differen't it's practically impossible to speculate how would it look like now. Whole game would have to be completely different or it would fail miserably.

WinterSnowblind · Dec 30, 2009, 04:38 PM // 16:38

If you're willing to pay a subscription, what's the problem with microtransactions?
Being able to afford it or not isn't really the problem, I'm sure most gamers could afford it..

But at least with the microtransactions, you're only having to pay for new content if/when you want it, rather than paying constantly for everything, regardless of if you want it, or if you're even currently playing the game. I'm not really a fan of these costume packs, it's okay as a one off thing, but I'd rather see more substantial content added, along the lines of if they added things like new areas, quests with new armour sets, etc, I'd gladly pay for little "mini-expansion" packs occasionally.

Even if in the end that turns out to be the same price, I much prefer that to paying a set subscription every month.

Grubcat · Dec 30, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

The only reason my son and I bought GW when it came out was that it did not have a monthly fee. Since then we, and my daughter, have purchased each campaign and EOTN. I love playing this game.

As hard as it would be, I would not buy GW2 if it was a pay-to-play model. For those of you who compare the money spent for subscription fees to movies, dinners out and drinking at bars, well, I don't do those things. Can't afford to, even if I wanted to.

I can justify (to myself

) the money spent on each GW game as very inexpensive entertainment, amortized over the 4+ years I have played. But, paying a fee each month, whether or not real life lets me play? Can't do it. Too cheap.

bigtime102 · Dec 30, 2009, 04:49 PM // 16:49

I dont know why anyone would want to pay more for a game. So Id go with a monthly fee, its just cheaper. You get access to ALL the content for a flat rate instead of buying it in pieces when you want it which end up costing more.

Id really rather just have the current model where you buy the box and that it, you get access to all the games content. It worked for GW1 why not GW2?

But anything is better the F2P games where you compete on how much real money you spend, thats the game, and Id pay $15 a month not to have that in my game.

Enon · Dec 30, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

If GW had a subscription system since release, it would have been a success, and more money backing it for better/more regular updates.

Partially true. All you have to do is replace release with designed.

GW isn't designed to support a subscription based model.

Feathermoore Rep · Dec 30, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

The only true problem with Anets business plan is that hardcore gamers break it. When you could get to level 20 in 1-2 days (now down to like 6 hours), it completely breaks the pace of the game. For casual gamers, the business model worked. I knew a couple people who would dabble in the game and love it. By the time they finished the first one and maybe farmed up some elite armor, the next expansion was out.

But if you strictly play the content, and play it fast, you could be done with an entire campaign in a week. Now multiply that by the four expansions. And you have a month before you've exhausted everything but HM, Elite Areas, farming, and pvp. Even if you took it slow and finished all of HM and Elite Areas once in two months, that leaves all the other time to farm and play pvp. If that satisfied you for 3 months before getting bored (mostly at lack of changes, you've played the game for a total 6 months. A game that was released over a course of 4 years.

Thats the true problem with the model. With most P2P models, I see generally see LOTS of grind straight from the start, which of course lengths the amount of time most people will play the game. Then you have the grind for items and gear like in WoW. In micro-transaction games, you generally see an imbalance between paying and non-paying users especially Korean "beta"-MMOs.

Personally, I wouldn't object to a hybrid platform. Something like standard $50 for the game, and a $2-5/monthly that could be prepaid as a maintenance fee. Thats $30-60 a year. So you end up paying between 80 and 110 a year. Compared to the standard $15/month ($180 + expansion prices), its still cheaper. Plus Anet has always been gracious about returning favors to its players. I mean lets be honest here, they gave us festivals every year, Sorrow's Furnace, Hard Mode, Storage, Costumes, Character Stylists, the Bonus Pack. I mean there's plenty they didn't have to do for free. And If an extra $30-60 a year + micros can help keep the servers faster and new content I'm all for it.

I'm just against P2P, where i end up paying for bug-riddled, incomplete, half-assed, terrible, or grind-excessive games. Its among the reasons I never bought, WoW, AoC, Tabula Rasa, or Aion to name a few. At $180, theres no way i'd feel like i actually got my moneys worth. For the same price, I can buy CoD:MW 2 and another game plus Xbox live for a year, and still get more for my money.

Yawgmoth · Dec 30, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

I think people need to know what Sorrow's Furnace really was, because it was NOT really what most of you think.

First and foremost it was an extremelly clever marketing move that proven to be a huge success - not only because of what it did to the game itself but what it did to the way people thought of the game, it's business model and it's future.

In fact it was just an unfinished part of the game that didn't make it into the release. But from a failure to deliver a complete game on time they made a huge marketing success of providing a free content update!

Please note that they released a movie trailer advertising it mere DAYS after GW release, the areas were already designed and built. Obviously it wasn't finished and required much work and they couldn't afford to push the release date of the whole game because of that, so they did what they did, an epic win.

Starting from the release of the trailer movie the effect on the way players were thinking of GW's business model was tremendous - it felt like a MagicalChristmasLand with no monthly fees to play AND with FREE content updates incoming. For years since then players kept that in their minds and waited for more free updates like that...

Cuilan · Dec 30, 2009, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by drkn

they could have just opened a 'donation jar' so that all those 'ten bucks monthly is a slice of bread' trolls could aid ANet with their money and after reaching a certain peak, they'd work on a new content picked in a big poll made by and for donators.

Or they can add more to their store. It would be nice if Anet were to finally take more advantage of the store and finally add more selection.

Introverted Dimensions · Dec 30, 2009, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by here to troll

I know, I know, the point of guild wars is to have a subscription fee-less(<--is that correct, lol) based model. But think about it, the average price for a subscription fee is about $12-$15. Now, how many people go to the movies. At least where I live it is about 10 bucks for a ticket and i might buy popcorn. Thats around 1 and a half hours to 2 hours of entertainment. Maybe longer if you see 2012 which is around 2 and a half hours (i think).

The fact is, it is easy to "get your monies worth" and i would rather support anet through a subscription fee than micro transactions. Just my $0.02.

$12-15 a month is really nothing for a game that you enjoy playing.

Unfortunately, I wouldn't pay that much for the current GW because I have nothing to do. It would just be a waste.

akio pwns · Dec 30, 2009, 05:48 PM // 17:48

We all do realize gw2 is comming out in maybe a years time correct? Around the holiday season i pray

If you want to complain about unfinished games and not being able to help the community and please them... you should head over to 2k. Rofl so many problems there.

EternalTempest · Dec 30, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

I think I have a rather simple answer.

I expect GW to be free, and GW2 based on how they hyped that as part of the game, in addition to the skill > grind concept. (and by grind I mean less then traditional mmo's).

If it were not to become free...

Subscription - Maybe, the problem will be the game will have to be so good to not only be a "good" game but overcome the sense anger / frustration at this change.

GuildWars competes with my Xbox360/Wii/PS3 because of the concept of the game, and the free nature of it. Note I've already cancel my auto renew on Xboxlive, and have no plans to go to PS3 "preimum" service (online game play still free).

Free Mode/Paid Mode - I HATE these. The design just bugs me and I will likely avoid any game that has it (no matter how good or bad).

Al Dente · Dec 30, 2009, 06:26 PM // 18:26

It's great, apart from the fact that a lot of teenagers, like myself, play the game. A teenager, in the U.K., at least, does not have a dependable source of income. Yes we can go and get a job stacking shelves or at the checkout... But then when can we play GW?